Co-op with The Zeitgeist Movement(TZM)

#1

Hi.
Here is a thesis for an ultimate form of systems.

Political : Meritocratic Democracy as we promote.

Economic: Resource Based Economy (RBE) as promoted by TZM and The Venus Project.

We are in general open-minded meritocrats. We are unified by Ideas, aren’t we?

We can collaborate with those engaged in TZM. There’s already an active hub that unites Meritocrats and RBE advocates, at Facebook. What we seek is a change, a radical one. By luring TZM activists into the political sphere of Meritocracy, then we form a gigantic synergy for that matter — change.
Any thoughts?

#2

tzm disagrees with meritocracy imo. thoughfollowers of tzm would probably sway. tzm fails identify the real issues

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#3

I think they have a lot of ideas that are congruent with us. They’ve been doing research on many of the same issues we are concerned with. At the least, we can benefit from this information.

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#4

How do we achieve the Unity of Meritocrats and RBE advocates? Or, is it necessary to begin with?

#5

I would say that TZM may have just been bought out, I agree with a lot of the things that they say but it’s just so unrealistic, it’s like a futuristic socialism, great idea but it’s not going to happen any time soon.

And most of the time trying to convert someone from TZM and RBE to Meritocracy is like trying to convert a christian into a muslim, it’s hard work and they are quite sincere that they think they have the divine idea. There’s potential in luring in some TZM and RBE advocates to Meritocracy but we have a better chance in changing TZM from within.

I’ve caused a bit of controversy in meritocracy circles from the idea that we should create fake peter joseph quotes about “Debt cancellation”, it’s a good idea because we’re not giving meritocracy a bad reputation, they don’t know who this is coming from, being able to target leaders of TZM could be crucial, if he is in support of legitimate positive change then he’d take on the idea of “Debt Cancellation”, the millionaire’s 100% inheritance tax law would be deadly to the elite if TZM took this on board but everything they support at the moment is idealistic.

I created a fake quote on this, but of course it needs to be reworded so that TZM actually think he’s said it, once you change their views on what TZM is, hoepfully it will change it from within, they won’t listen to new ideas, I’ve suggest many ideas but it never changes TZM, I would say Peter Joseph’s agenda is simply to make money, he actually trades in the stock market making money from money.

#6

Stealth hijacking of the image of PJ. Creative idea. I Liked his page on FB but I dare not to comment on his posts - sharing of news’ articles.
TZM is specialized in economic philosophy -RBE. As for politics and society, they are futuristic not realistic, namely they only claim to erase all national borders and nations as institutions and replace governments with technocratic engineers in the name of “intelligent management of the earth resources.” Who do govern then? This is a classical query with no concrete answer from TZM. Their concept is still at the phase of abstract not of concrete. So, here we come to them and propose realistic approach toward the ideal world. Beginning from meritocracy and reaching the Star Trek like world view. What do you think?

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#7

Would you please clarify the part “real issues” more?

#8

Glad to see this discussion taking place. This is an obvious symbiosis in my assessment.

Meritocracy = near future, RBE = future -future.

The use of monetary economics was initially a huge turn off for me regarding the Movement, I just had to realize that the problem was itself the solution. What we have here is people like Jacque Fresco who are simply way the fuck ahead of the monetary economics discussed here. He is a very intelligent man but that does not mean of course his current vision is a final draft either.

Meritocracy is the transition us TZM guys are looking for. If both movements are aware of the each other then it would be very wise to explore the relationship. It is dialectic in a way: Two groups of highly motivated people working towards very similar ideals allowing people of variable views of the future two groups to choose from as their community. Both going the same direction to same desirable goals but neither ever stepping on toes since both systems are for different periods of the future… And of course, both needed to finalize the dialectical balance… Maybe not a perfect example but it works.

I support both…

It is obvious to me that an RBE in yet to be defined as well as Meritocracy, but that is simply because of the fact that a meritocracy has most of its ideology already in place with the current system. An RBE has never yet to exist… It takes a different kind of mind to see how an RBE will work for the benefit of all, just as it does to see how ‘numbers are all, and all are numbers’.

I see the biggest difference holding the two apart being the Merit aspect. Fresco makes clear he believes all social stratification can be eliminated. I think that is ludicrous, but even if I were wrong about the future, Merit needs to apply starting yesterday. I’m sick of titty fed do nothing retards running my community and yours as well.

Peter Joseph being out for money is a hilariously ridicules comment, clearly someone not in step with the man behind the TZM work.

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#9

Dear Catalyst_Coop !
Thanks for your comment. The definition of Meritocracy as near future and RBE as future - future is what I agree with. We as a movement can learn something - to a great deal - from TZM. They are worldwide, widely acknowledged, have multiple platforms (e.g. Blogs, websites, Youtube channel, etc., the multimedia), hold annual global conference, and so on. I came across their current achievement -Z-Day 2015 held in Berlin, Germany. Here’s their official Youtube channel(, as you may already know).
→ https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCEwoFdqY09VwZFESGZ8Qp4A

As TZM deals with a futuristic model, it takes some years to achieve their ideals. Their model/thought is specialized in economy, not politics. Not only that they despise politics in general, which is the core element that separates TZM and TMI. Having said that, however, I agree with their future world view. Yet, as mentioned earlier, it takes some period and enough humans’ consciousness level.
In general, in my understanding, the change/shift is gradual, not instant or sudden. It takes human’s effort and commitment. We are active in terms of political movement ( though only a few official political parties are already established, in the world), and they, TMI, are active in terms of social movement. As you paraphrased two movements in the form of dialectic, we can surely effect mutually. From my empirical knowledge, TZM members are generally open-minded. Thusly we can inform them of many things - from methodology to world view - to a great extent. Likewise we can absorb many things from them. In the time of pinnacle point, where TMI and TZM meet, the global spark will be ignited, I guess.

#10

Hey RinTaroh,

Good to hear from you. It semi-amazes me that the subject of these two movements are not discussed more often here… And they definitely have Merit in their achievements. In fact I posted here a few days ago one of the talks from the 2015 Berlin event discussing exactly what you mention in your first paragraph. Link HERE.

I was surprised at the lack of interest… but it could be fully probable that many here found Meritocracy first and have little knowledge of the history or the purpose behind that movement.

I myself have some basic issues with RBE, its idealistic overtone anyway, and that is why I never stop learning more. Meritocracy mostly fits too, so both apply with me. Just a matter of each finding its suitable position in this change.

Their are definitive differences in the overall ‘point’ of each movement, as you state, politics/economics. But I would argue that an RBE makes for a pallet where no or little politics are needed (a good goal). RBE goal being a computer based system of resource allotment that breaks the chains of politics and other old-school necessities.

And with that said, Meritocracy starts the process of eroding those old-school necessities, but keeps on giving by inserting a level of social stratification into the future RBE system, which, currently foresees none in its later degrees.

Now, social stratification may in fact someday be meaningless to retract what my previous comment stated; let’s say our consciousness moves to advanced A.I… But until such a situation, Merit is all I have come across that has Merit. And I have not been lazy in my homework…

Many of the TZM and Venus Project folk are likely completely unaware of the AC, its Movement, its books, and MP and MI. When they do become aware, I like yourself, feel they will open their arms.

Change is coming, Movements are overlapping, and a serious picture of the future is shaping. I am optimistic that it is of the NWO style, and not the OWO.

In fact, I will make a priority of making sure the TZM knows what ‘else’ is going on out there. I will keep in touch about news on that front.

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#11

As TZM is presented in Zeitgeist 1,2 and 3, I mostly agree with what TZM stands for. But I do think there are missing philosophical areas where Meritocracy fills in the gaps.

I personally don’t see the point of trying to convert people, it’s like that scene from They Live (1988) where the guy is trying to put the special sunglasses on his friend so he can see the truth, and the friend keeps resisting and they end up beating each other up… So my method of “converting” others is just to plants seeds, little pieces of information here and there and if the person is receptive the seed will grow into a tree.

Either way TZM and Meritocracy will probably cross paths and work on projects together.

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#12

I agree. :grin: As you said, “learning more” is crucial for contemporary free-thinkers.

As you elaborated, RBE is futuristic. In terms of feasibility/actuality, RBE is not a realistic alternative taking into account the humans’ level of general will or collective consciousness, shall we say.

Please do it, keep us informed. I’ll do what I can with regard to observing TZM.

#13

I agree. MI and TZM will meet on the road, definitely.

#14

Hello again Rintaroh,

I was a member of TZM years ago, I never participated I just kept up with what was going on. I have not been to the page in a while and could not log in anymore. So, I tried to start a new profile. It seems as though I may be on a spammer list or something, because with two email addresses entered over two weeks no one has contacted me with my login info to date.

Now, when I go to the page for the blog, http://blog.thezeitgeistmovement.com/ it says the site is offline. Try it yourself and see if you can get in.

I have sent a request for why I cannot gain access, but no response. I can ASSume all day, so I won’t. But I would be curious if you can see the blogs front page.

To close, anyone who is a TZM member please let us know “if the subject of Meritocracy or the other side of things has ever been spoken of.” and if not, “bring it up and get the groups feel on it.”

See ya,

#15

C_C !
The TZM blog page is offline. I checked it out.

#16

Well. Lets hope they are not experiencing hacking or the like… I’ll check it again soon.

#17

Hey RinTaroh,

You mention a hub at Face Book bringing together both TZM and Meritocracy people. Can you point me to that group please? What is its name?